Summary
In this panel-style discussion, Dan, Jackie, and Ornima share their experiences and insights on growing design and UX teams and embedding design practices in large organizations. Dan highlights the challenges of delivering UX in federal agencies, noting the need for patience and anecdotal evidence of success rather than ideal solutions. He stresses the importance of flexibility when selling design processes, advocating for listening carefully to stakeholders and adapting instead of rigidly pushing pre-conceived solutions. Jackie discusses scaling design ops teams from 1 to 9 and planning to grow further, explaining how their organizational model addresses friction and broadening responsibilities beyond visual design toward experience design. Jackie also shares how a new VP of design (Gene Lee) championed the inclusion of design ops in broader business strategy, enabling a smooth business case. Ornima recounts the challenge of scaling Shopify’s UX research team from a small group to over 50, emphasizing the importance of cross-disciplinary collaboration and demonstrating impact on product outcomes over time. Both Jackie and Ornima underscore the necessity of educating other teams unfamiliar with design’s role and building trust through well-prepared documentation and consistent collaboration. The speakers repeatedly stress patience, collective consciousness, embracing conflict and friction as natural steps toward progress, and recognizing organizational maturity to time initiatives properly.
Key Insights
-
•
Great UX delivery in government and complex organizations is often imperfect and requires patience and anecdotal wins rather than perfect solutions.
-
•
Selling design processes requires flexibility and listening; imposing rigid solutions often fails.
-
•
Scaling design ops teams hinges on recognizing patterns of friction and expanding responsively rather than scaling for its own sake.
-
•
Experience design is a broader scope than UI or visual, requiring more hands and diverse partnerships including agencies.
-
•
A supportive leadership figure like Gene Lee can significantly accelerate design ops adoption through integrating it into business plans.
-
•
Cross-functional collaboration, such as pairing UX researchers with support, data science, and marketing, helps embed design thinking across organizations.
-
•
Building trust with other teams unfamiliar with design requires clear communication, well-designed documentation, and delivering value over time.
-
•
Patience and acceptance of organizational maturity cycles are essential; not every good idea can or should be implemented immediately.
-
•
Conflict and friction within teams or organizations are necessary flashpoints that enable growth and collective understanding.
-
•
Design ops and UX functions evolve with organization size, requiring new strategies and team structuring to maintain velocity and impact.
Notable Quotes
"Listen hard, change fast."
"I would in no way describe what we did as great UX, but constantly beating them over the head with UX solutions, they can’t unsee it."
"If you hear what I’m saying and you’re uncomfortable, and I say I’ll do it your way, now you’re connected and you’ll back me until you can’t anymore."
"We love small teams because we move fast and break things and figure things out on the fly."
"Scaling is not for the sake of scaling, but scaling over time."
"They had no idea who we were or what value we provided, so first was hello, we exist."
"We’re humans having human experiences and remembering that is key."
"Collective consciousness cannot be asked to happen overnight; it’s a game of patience."
"Sometimes you have all the best ideas, but it’s not the right time, and that’s OK."
"Part of our job is just to have an opinion right now, not necessarily to solve everything immediately."
Or choose a question:
More Videos
"Give a s**t about your topic. If you’re not trying to change something, why are you on stage?"
Louis Rosenfeld Jemma Ahmed Christian Crumlish Uday Gajendar Chris GeisonCoffee with Lou #3: What Makes for a Successful UX Conference Presentation?
May 2, 2024
"Nothing builds collaborative relationships better than being physically present, so we make annual off-sites a priority."
Jilanna WilsonDistributed Design Operations Management
October 23, 2019
"It’s actually embarrassing how little code there is and you get these incredible emergent effects."
Matt WebbContext Window: Five Futures for AI
June 11, 2025
"It is very easy to tick all the accessibility checkboxes and still have a poor, ugly, and unhelpful product."
Sam ProulxAccessibility: An Opportunity to Innovate
September 8, 2022
"Experts develop insights by isolating patterns and data; as designers, we already do this daily."
Theresa NeilDesigning for Wellness: Specializing in Healthcare
May 22, 2024
"Evals define a shared definition of good with tests to measure it, and that is the secret sauce for building great AI products."
Peter Van DijckHands-on AI #2: Understanding evals: LLM as a Judge
October 15, 2025
"Design ops isn’t just a support role; it is a strategic partner involved in decision making."
Rachel Posman John Calhoun"Ask Me Anything" with Rachel Posman and John Calhoun, Authors of the Upcoming Rosenfeld Book, The Design Conductors
September 25, 2024
"Representation is key to avoiding harm and misinterpretation, especially when working with Indigenous and marginalized communities."
Tricia WangThe most popular design thinking strategy is BS
January 27, 2022
"The sponge is really full — my brain is pretty full of lots of insights from the last couple of days."
Sarah Auslander Betsy Ramaccia Gordon RossInsights Panel
November 18, 2022
