Rosenverse

Log in or create a free Rosenverse account to watch this video.

Log in Create free account

100s of community videos are available to free members. Conference talks are generally available to Gold members.

Fireside chat with Sarah Brooks and Jen Pahlka
Thursday, October 21, 2021 • Civic Design Community
Share the love for this talk
Fireside chat with Sarah Brooks and Jen Pahlka
Speakers: Sarah Brooks and Jennifer Pahlka
Link:

Summary

For our second gathering of the Civic Design Community, we’ll learn from Jennifer Pahlka, founder and former Executive Director of Code for America who served. as US Deputy Chief Technology Officer from June 2013 to June 2014 and helped found the United States Digital Service. We’ll explore the importance of designers inside and outside government moving upstream to work alongside policymakers to make alliances and push back when needed to strengthen conditions for designers and digital technologists to do work that delivers improved outcomes for residents and citizens.

Key Insights

  • Civic Tech work is not just implementation; it must influence policymaking for real impact.

  • The Boston school selection project revealed how policy assumptions (e.g., walking distance) need revising based on implementation feedback.

  • Traditional government projects often lack timely feedback loops between policy writers and implementers, leading to failures.

  • Healthcare.gov’s failure catalyzed the creation of the U.S. Digital Service and a new model focused on agile, collaborative development.

  • Long-term embedding of designers and technologists in government enables deeper learning and more effective change.

  • Many career public servants do user research unofficially but need permission and training to do it effectively.

  • Low trust in government systems causes users, such as doctors interacting with CMS portals, to feel frustrated and opt out.

  • Successful Civic Tech requires partnerships that blend technology, policy, and frontline user understanding.

  • Private sector frameworks like Customer Experience (CX) may not fully apply to public services without adaptation.

  • Community support and strong relationships are essential for sustaining Civic Tech efforts within challenging government environments.

Notable Quotes

"I was largely wrong about how we thought technology and design would just implement policy."

"People implementing policy see the problems with the policy long before anyone else does."

"The policy was about walking distance as the crow flies, but that wasn’t walkable—so the policy needed to change."

"In traditional government projects, policy writers are often gone long before implementations fail or need revising."

"Healthcare.gov was a blow, but it opened the door to new ways to work in government technology."

"If leaders tell me to build a concrete boat, I will build a concrete boat—and that’s damaging to government."

"Designing a service is really designing a new relationship between government and people, who come with enormous baggage."

"User research in government is often done without knowing what it’s called, and people aren’t always empowered to do it."

"We need to push back when we see the concrete boat coming, but it’s really hard to know how."

"Community and ‘the phone a friend’ are what get you through the hardest parts of working in government."

Ask the Rosenbot
Natalia Radywyl
Co-Designing New Power in Australia's Public Sector
2022 • Civic Design 2022
Gold
Kayla Farrell
What It's Like To Be a User Researcher at Compass
2021 • Advancing Research 2021
Gold
Peter Van Dijck
Building impactful AI products for design and product leaders, Part 3: Understand AI architectures: RAG, Agents, Oh My!
2025 • Rosenfeld Community
Bria Alexander
Charting the future of DesignOps: A community workshop
2024 • DesignOps Community
Nalini P. Kotamraju
Two Jobs in One: Being a “Leader who is a Researcher” and a “Researcher who is a Leader"
2021 • Advancing Research 2021
Gold
Mackenzie Cockram
Integrating Qualitative and Quantitative Research from Discovery to Live
2022 • QuantQual Interest Group
Joshua Graves
We Need To Talk: Addressing Unmet Expectations (Part 2 of 3)
2025 • Rosenfeld Community
Sarah Brooks
Theme 3 Intro
2021 • Civic Design 2021
Gold
Uday Gajendar
The Wicked Craft of Enterprise UX
2015 • Enterprise UX 2015
Gold
Rachael Dietkus, LCSW
Everything You Need to Know about the Civic Design 2022 Call for Presentations
2022 • Civic Design Community
Tutti Taygerly
Videconference: How to Work with Difficult People with Tutti Taygerly
2020 • Enterprise Community
Jemma Ahmed
Bringing together market and user research
2019 • Advancing Research Community
Josh Clark
Sentient Design, AI, and the Radically Adaptive Experience (1st of 3 seminars)
2025 • Rosenfeld Community
Surya Vanka
Unleashing Swarm Creativity to Solve Enterprise Challenges
2021 • Design at Scale 2021
Gold
Andy Barraclough
From Costly Complexity to Efficient Insights: Why UX Teams Are Switching To Voxpopme
2024 • DesignOps Summit 2024
Gold
Laine Riley Prokay
How DesignOps can Drive Inclusive Career Ladders for All
2021 • DesignOps Summit 2021
Gold

More Videos

Steve Chaparro

"You have to start small, like running a marathon one step at a time, and prove success before scaling culture changes."

Steve Chaparro

Bringing Into Alignment Brand, Culture and Space

August 13, 2020

Elizabeth Churchill

"The creation of trust and collaboration environment has a different timescale than communication tools themselves."

Elizabeth Churchill

Exploring Cadence: You, Your Team, and Your Enterprise

June 8, 2017

Sha Hwang

"Participation without the redistribution of power is an empty and frustrating process for the powerless."

Sha Hwang

The First Fifty Years of Civic Design

November 16, 2022

Corey Nelson

"You do not have to go publicly thank the employer who just laid you off. They’ll be fine without it."

Corey Nelson Amy Santee

Layoffs

November 15, 2022

Noz Urbina

"You have to verify key data points carefully because AI can hallucinate details in critical areas."

Noz Urbina

Rapid AI-powered UX (RAUX): A framework for empowering human designers

May 1, 2025

Lavrans Løvlie

"Many new adopters use service design artifacts as a tick-box exercise rather than embracing the mindset change required."

Lavrans Løvlie Ben Reason

Ask me anything – Authors of Service Design: From Insight to Implementation

November 19, 2025

Peter Merholz

"I feel good about the work I do, but my company doesn't ship good work."

Peter Merholz

The 2025 State of UX/Design Organizational Health

November 12, 2025

Daniel Gloyd

"We as humans value warmth information in others more than competence information."

Daniel Gloyd

Warming the User Experience: Lessons from America's first and most radical human-centered designers

May 9, 2024

Louis Rosenfeld

"Networking isn't just knowing people, it's about staying in warm connection with people over time."

Louis Rosenfeld

Coffee with Lou

January 11, 2024