Rosenverse

Log in or create a free Rosenverse account to watch this video.

Log in Create free account

100s of community videos are available to free members. Conference talks are generally available to Gold members.

Fireside chat with Sarah Brooks and Jen Pahlka
Thursday, October 21, 2021 • Civic Design Community
Share the love for this talk
Fireside chat with Sarah Brooks and Jen Pahlka
Speakers: Sarah Brooks and Jennifer Pahlka
Link:

Summary

For our second gathering of the Civic Design Community, we’ll learn from Jennifer Pahlka, founder and former Executive Director of Code for America who served. as US Deputy Chief Technology Officer from June 2013 to June 2014 and helped found the United States Digital Service. We’ll explore the importance of designers inside and outside government moving upstream to work alongside policymakers to make alliances and push back when needed to strengthen conditions for designers and digital technologists to do work that delivers improved outcomes for residents and citizens.

Key Insights

  • Civic Tech work is not just implementation; it must influence policymaking for real impact.

  • The Boston school selection project revealed how policy assumptions (e.g., walking distance) need revising based on implementation feedback.

  • Traditional government projects often lack timely feedback loops between policy writers and implementers, leading to failures.

  • Healthcare.gov’s failure catalyzed the creation of the U.S. Digital Service and a new model focused on agile, collaborative development.

  • Long-term embedding of designers and technologists in government enables deeper learning and more effective change.

  • Many career public servants do user research unofficially but need permission and training to do it effectively.

  • Low trust in government systems causes users, such as doctors interacting with CMS portals, to feel frustrated and opt out.

  • Successful Civic Tech requires partnerships that blend technology, policy, and frontline user understanding.

  • Private sector frameworks like Customer Experience (CX) may not fully apply to public services without adaptation.

  • Community support and strong relationships are essential for sustaining Civic Tech efforts within challenging government environments.

Notable Quotes

"I was largely wrong about how we thought technology and design would just implement policy."

"People implementing policy see the problems with the policy long before anyone else does."

"The policy was about walking distance as the crow flies, but that wasn’t walkable—so the policy needed to change."

"In traditional government projects, policy writers are often gone long before implementations fail or need revising."

"Healthcare.gov was a blow, but it opened the door to new ways to work in government technology."

"If leaders tell me to build a concrete boat, I will build a concrete boat—and that’s damaging to government."

"Designing a service is really designing a new relationship between government and people, who come with enormous baggage."

"User research in government is often done without knowing what it’s called, and people aren’t always empowered to do it."

"We need to push back when we see the concrete boat coming, but it’s really hard to know how."

"Community and ‘the phone a friend’ are what get you through the hardest parts of working in government."

Ask the Rosenbot
Steve Baty
Discussion
2016 • Enterprise UX 2016
Gold
Chui Chui Tan
Global insights: Embracing international and intercultural research for innovation
2025 • Advancing Research 2025
Gold
Matt Duignan
Atomizing Research: Trend or Trap
2020 • Advancing Research 2020
Gold
Louis Rosenfeld
The Rosenbot and the Rosenverse: An AMA with Lou Rosenfeld
2024 • Designing with AI 2024
Gold
Peter Van Dijck
Building impactful AI products for design and product leaders, Part 1: The new product journey
2025 • Rosenfeld Community
Dave Malouf
Panel: Design Systems and Documentation
2017 • DesignOps Summit 2017
Gold
Kara Kane
Communities of Practice for Civic Design
2022 • Civic Design Community
Indi Young
Paying Better Attention to the Problem with Indi Young
2019 • Advancing Research Community
Kristin Skinner
Group Activity: A Deep Dive Into Value and Outcomes
2019 • DesignOps Summit 2019
Gold
B. Pagels-Minor
Breaking the Tension: The Power of Enabling Your Employees to Show Up Authentically
2022 • Design at Scale 2022
Gold
Edward Cupps
The Principal Path: Journeying from Management to Individual Contributor
2021 • Design at Scale 2021
Gold
Kit Unger
Theme 1 Intro
2022 • Design at Scale 2022
Gold
Dalia El-Shimy
So You've Got a Seat at the Table. Now What?
2020 • Advancing Research 2020
Gold
Brianna Sylver
Lead With Purpose
2020 • Advancing Research 2020
Gold
Jacqui Frey
Flow and Superfluidity for Design Orgs
2018 • DesignOps Summit 2018
Gold
Brian T. O’Neill
Does Designing and Researching Data Products Powered by ML/AI and Analytics Call for New UX Methods?
2022 • QuantQual Interest Group

More Videos

Carla Casariego

"A lot of things we said yes to didn’t necessarily have value to the member or the company — we had to challenge that."

Carla Casariego Sarah Spencer

DesignOps in Wonderland

October 24, 2019

Ariel Kennan

"What would Universal Design mean for communications, like a podcast that serves visually impaired listeners too?"

Ariel Kennan

Civic Design in 2022

January 13, 2022

Kaitlin Tasker

"Highly trained professionals still default to a presumed 'standard' under pressure, revealing how bias persists."

Kaitlin Tasker

Fast and Fearless Inclusive Research

March 27, 2023

Sara Asche Anderson

"We want to be an inspiring friend you go to for advice, not just someone who tells you what to buy."

Sara Asche Anderson Jamie Kaspszak

Not Your Ordinary Re-Brand: Design's Path to Driving Customer Obsession at Best Buy

January 8, 2024

Bria Alexander

"The cohort experience is one of the highest rated things because you get to meet new people from different companies."

Bria Alexander

Opening Remarks

September 29, 2021

Cennydd Bowles

"Support structures for switching from design to academia are sparse; you mostly have to figure it out yourself."

Cennydd Bowles

Exit Interview #2: Rediscovering the ethical heart of design

November 6, 2025

Jilanna Wilson

"Continuous onboarding is like drinking water in sips throughout the day, not a gallon all at once."

Jilanna Wilson

Distributed Design Operations Management

October 23, 2019

Steve Chaparro

"You have to start small, like running a marathon one step at a time, and prove success before scaling culture changes."

Steve Chaparro

Bringing Into Alignment Brand, Culture and Space

August 13, 2020

Alnie Figueroa

"If your function is very new, expect to hear 'What do you do again?' or face skepticism about overlapping roles."

Alnie Figueroa

Teamwork: Strategies for Effective Collaboration with Other Program Management Teams

September 8, 2022